Curse

Shadis · Jun 19, 2007, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.Kougar

So you don't think it's unfair that some classes get new skills and others don't, or more accurately, some classes get skills that are worth taking the time to earn and get, and others get crap that isn't worth the time it takes to go to the Hero Skill Trainer and unlock them?

I never said that. My joking comment was to him apologizing to the Elementalist crowd for having their skills toned down. I'm just not raging because I KNEW these skills would be changed just as I know they are going to be changed again:

Quote:

Update - Monday, June 18, 2007
[edit] Skill Updates

As a part of this playbalance test week, we’ve made the following skill changes:

Quote:

PvE Skills

We will be evaluating these new skills over the course of the next week. It is likely that we will make play balance adjustments to them during that time.

Perhaps we should wait and see how it all pans out before jumping to conclusions.

pingu666 · Jun 19, 2007, 12:36 AM // 00:36

yeah, recklace haste upto 15e :S i checked

Andisa Kalorn · Jun 19, 2007, 12:37 AM // 00:37

Severe nerfs on BOTH ele skills? Ouch. It needed to be nerfed but don't make it useless. But on the bright side I guess there's no real need to grind faction now. Even though they made it easier (which is good) it's still just too boring.

I like the change to critical agility. Didn't nerf it for my sin just in order to stop other classes from being overpowered.

The change to the paragon skill though? I'm not sure. I mean, I appreciate them encouraging primary paragons. But we can't use this on heroes, so it means that doing hardmode with H/H will be easy if you are a paragon and hard if you're not (since paragons also do better with the faction warrior skill). We need some sort of party buff that anyone can take with them into hardmode now they've ruined party-wide armor stacking. And I want to be able to do hardmode on characters other than my paragon.

The change to the rit skill - lol. And no ranger changes? I expected them to make the ranger skills at least worthwhile.

Tactical-Dillusions · Jun 19, 2007, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian of the Light

The dervish are 100% fine now 24h Dwanya or Balthazar, I should be fine

.

Don't bet on it.

Yichi · Jun 19, 2007, 12:48 AM // 00:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.Kougar

Hey, don't blame me or take it out on me if you are playing an Assassin that sucks or doesn't fully live up to his potential. Just don't take it too hard when a build like the one I can and has decimated every Critical Strikes build I've ever come up against in Alliance Battles, Fort Aspenwood, and other PvP areas.

ok since you asked for it....

First off Aliance battles and Fort Aspenwood are not good measures of how successful a build will work in PVP. If you knew remotely anything abotu decent PVP, you would know that a PVE area based PVP where the occasional 1v1 happens is not a good indicator of skill, nor is it a good indicator of who can play said character in the class the best. Secondly, if you knew how the primary attribute functioned or how to even play an assassin, than you would realize that you are completely wrong in your origional assessment of all users who use the critical strikes attribute. Crit strikes is not ment to have an entire build based around it, but to merely provide the extra chance for a higher damage, dual auto attack with each attack skill used, as well as boost some damage that can be done by said attacks. And when such an attack hits, you recieve energy back towards your next attack skill. Played effectively, this can be quite powerful in the right bar and the right situation. It appears to me from your "ever so vast knowledge" (and i say this loosely) that you think of an assassin more as a frontlines character and not utilizing the character to its full potential. While yes anyone can build a character that has the potential to front line tank,. with the lower armor of the class in general, it is usually an extremely bad idea. Also as you so elegantly put it, "u pwn every other critical strikes build" because a build based on that line alone is goign to be garbage. Any character can build a highly defensive build that has little offense, but just enough to get by and think they have skill because they can tank another player attackign them, which again is one very flawed way to play any character. A good defense is also offset by a good offense, which the assassin has and can be achieved by not being on the frontline, but shadow stepping into and out of battle, thus one of the most highly effective ways to play this class. Most of the people that died in PVE took the sin at the face value of a warrior, and thus treated them as such. Which is why most of the people that play them are terrible at them and thus ruined their useability in PVE. But just because you play your sin to be able to play in that style, doesnt mean that you have the best way to play it. In fact thats one of the worst ways to play that class.

Leighwyn · Jun 19, 2007, 12:48 AM // 00:48

Intensity: +25% damage for 10 seconds, 45 sec recharge

Let's assume I've got a 20% enchant mod and things are extra special because I get 12 seconds. I also will assume a staff that grants me 40% chance FCR. I've been able to get about 7 spells off before it dies (all 1 second cast times). For your typical elementalist damage skill, let's go with 100 damage. So Intensity gained me 175 damage in 12 seconds, but only every 45 seconds.

Glyph of Elemental Power: +2 attrib for 15 seconds or 5 spells, 5 sec recharge

In taking a small sampling of fire magic skills, you gain 14 damage with those two levels that you're boosted. Since I could pump out 7 skills in 12 seconds most times, I'll go ahead and assume I could churn 5 out in 10. +70 damage for me in however long it took to cast the 5 (10 seconds).

In 45 seconds, glyph will have added almost 300 damage to my spells. Sure, it has the annoyance factor of having to cast every 10 seconds...but it's more annoying to wait 45 seconds for Intensity to return.

This last part is conjecture on my part since I don't follow ele's but...does anyone even use glyph of elemental power on their bar? And if not, why would anyone use intensity in its latest form?

FoxBat · Jun 19, 2007, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildmouseX

stealth necro nerf - reckless haste changed from 10e cost to 15e cost.

That was done and listed in the patch notes over a month ago.

Silly Warrior · Jun 19, 2007, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitisVinifera

so we waited 2 extra months for skill that got immediately nerfed?

what exactly was the 2 months used for then?

Perhaps they just sat around the Arena.Net office and played WoW.....

Nah, I'm sure the extra time was spent adjusting....well >_>
-----
On a more serious note, I'm sure the time was spend getting ready for GWEN's release...although theres no release date yet....so who knows.

J.Kougar · Jun 19, 2007, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Of course they're getting the say in what affects skills. Balance in PvP is much more vital. Not a whole lot to say, since it's pretty obvious and takes a lot of explaining.

Wait, okay... you're telling me that PvP needs to have the biggest influence over the PvE Only Skills I was talking about, because of PvP Balance? How does that even remotely make sense?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistressYichi

ok since you asked for it....

First off Aliance battles and Fort Aspenwood are not good measures of how successful a build will work in PVP. If you knew remotely anything abotu decent PVP...

Okay I admit I only read the first few lines of your post/reply because uh... where the heck did I say I was a hard core PvP player and knew what was best in PvP? I'm concerned about the PvE Only skills because I mostly play PvE and as such I'm concerned with what works best in PvE. Sure, I can take my PvE build into some PvP and still kick the snot out of most of the builds I find there, but that's an added fun bonus.
Heck, from what I've seen Assassins aren't even that popular in HA and GvG, so your rant about me not being an expert assassin in those fields is rather moot.

Going to grab food and watch something, back later for the sure to be amusing responses.

drakun01 · Jun 19, 2007, 12:58 AM // 00:58

So now I will take a Mantra of Recall Mesmer, as long as he understands that he is to spam CoP and ONLY CoP. Anything that delays casting of said spell will get him kicked.
And I'll take a paragon, as long as he can maintain that one shout. If he can't he'll get kicked.
Honestly, I'm disappointed. If you are gonna' make these skills suck, why introduce them in the first place? They were supposed to be the equal of elites, but now my ranger and ritualist are crying, my derv is like "OMGWTFBBHAX PERMA-AVATAR FTW!", my monk is like 'w00t no SoL nerf!' to which my Ele responds "just wait, kid. Just wait."

Chicken Ftw · Jun 19, 2007, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Offtopic: I'm starting to think J.Kougar, wuzzman and bhavv are all the same clueless person.

Mildly On-Topic: I mainly PvP and couldn't care less about these PvE-only skills, nor would I mind them being extremely overpowered, since I'm too busy noticing ANet's lack of balancing PvP. Although, seeing Andrew posting in PvP section suddenly is a little encouraging, even if the message still seems to be "it'll be looked into". <3

On-Topic: Some of the nerfs seem a bit extreme. Ele skills went from good to probably not ever making it onto my bar, and ranger skills still suck hard.

The Great Al · Jun 19, 2007, 01:04 AM // 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leighwyn

Intensity: +25% damage for 10 seconds, 45 sec recharge

Let's assume I've got a 20% enchant mod and things are extra special because I get 12 seconds. I also will assume a staff that grants me 40% chance FCR. I've been able to get about 7 spells off before it dies (all 1 second cast times). For your typical elementalist damage skill, let's go with 100 damage. So Intensity gained me 175 damage in 12 seconds, but only every 45 seconds.

Glyph of Elemental Power: +2 attrib for 15 seconds or 5 spells, 5 sec recharge

In taking a small sampling of fire magic skills, you gain 14 damage with those two levels that you're boosted. Since I could pump out 7 skills in 12 seconds most times, I'll go ahead and assume I could churn 5 out in 10. +70 damage for me in however long it took to cast the 5 (10 seconds).

In 45 seconds, glyph will have added almost 300 damage to my spells. Sure, it has the annoyance factor of having to cast every 10 seconds...but it's more annoying to wait 45 seconds for Intensity to return.

This last part is conjecture on my part since I don't follow ele's but...does anyone even use glyph of elemental power on their bar? And if not, why would anyone use intensity in its latest form?

I'm fairly certain that you can't get the 1/4 recharge. Also, I guess 7 spells with 100+ dmg is possible in 12 seconds but unlikely. Since GoEP got buffed, it's really not that bad. I guess a nice thing is, it bumps up Glowing Gaze to 18 fire magic, which will give back an extra energy each time you cast it.

Leighwyn · Jun 19, 2007, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Al

I'm fairly certain that you can't get the 1/4 recharge. Also, I guess 7 spells with 100+ dmg is possible in 12 seconds but unlikely.

Those weren't hypotheticals, I built an ele and tested in the sparring area.

Bryant Again · Jun 19, 2007, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.Kougar

Wait, okay... you're telling me that PvP needs to have the biggest influence over the PvE Only Skills I was talking about, because of PvP Balance? How does that even remotely make sense?

Paragraph 1 was in response to this (which was wrong by the way):

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.Kougar

...and my point was, that regardless of if you call them PvPers or not, they seem to be the ones who are getting the say in what affects PvE, even if they don't play PvE themselves.

Paragraph 2, to this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.Kougar

Why should anyone other than hard-core PvE players have any say in something like PvE only skills?

Sorry about that, I should've broken down your post and responded as such.

TheMosesPHD · Jun 19, 2007, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.Kougar

Wait, okay... you're telling me that PvP needs to have the biggest influence over the PvE Only Skills I was talking about, because of PvP Balance? How does that even remotely make sense?

No, he's not telling you that at all. Even if you didn't read his big paragraph you should've been reading what else has been going on...

You keep blaming PvPers for the PvE only skills being changed, despite being told countless times that PvPers weren't complaining about the skills, PvEers were. If PvPers were complaining about it, show us some links to their posts.

What he IS saying is that PvP balance IS more important than PvE balance. I shouldn't have to explain why that is but you'll probably ask anyway...

Quote:

Going to grab food and watch something, back later for the sure to be amusing responses.

>.< If it's not "Let's agree to disagree" it's something else >.< People that are always wrong get really good at slipping away from a debate when they can see they're about to get pwned by logic >.<

darktyco · Jun 19, 2007, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitisVinifera

so we waited 2 extra months for skill that got immediately nerfed?

what exactly was the 2 months used for then?

Very good question. Did you also notice that the necro Sunspear skill got nerfed within 2 hours of the first update? What in the heck is ANet thinking these days?

Summary: ANet releases some nice PvE only skills, half of them requiring a sick grind to get even rank 1, immediately nerfs one of the skills, and a few days later drastically nerfs some of the others.

W...T...F?

The Great Al · Jun 19, 2007, 01:11 AM // 01:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leighwyn

Those weren't hypotheticals, I built an ele and tested in the sparring area.

So you CAN get 1/4 recharge? I had heard that Anet got rid of that...ok cool, thanks.

Gaile Gray · Jun 19, 2007, 01:14 AM // 01:14

Hey, all,

Isaiah just relayed that there is a known bug with Critical Agility, and that bug will be fixed tomorrow.

Sorry 'bout that!

TideSwayer · Jun 19, 2007, 01:14 AM // 01:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJD

Twiddling their thumbs, I thought these skills were TESTED FOR FREAKING MONTHS!? Now we are the guinea pigs that see them nerfed, way to be, with this Anet lost another customer, I am sick of the up down merry go-round of ineptitude they have become and finding that the only fun I have in this game is playing with friends and has nothing actually to do with the game itself anymore, I will be moving on after gwen, thanks but no thanks for a once great, but now crappy product anet.

Aione anyone?

I'm not going to share in your vitriol, but I do think ANet needs to start holding its testers to a higher level of quality than they are. Not one tester thought Intensity or the Paragon skill in its first-unveiled form would be too powerful? How many months before the public unveiling were the skills in that form?

Not one tester ever made a remark about the insane faction farming grind for the Kurz/Lux skills? Did any one tester or any staffer at ANet actually try grinding for those skills at max level from nothing (ie. 0 faction in the title track) at any time during the beginning of PvE-skill development? I bet not. How could they and come to the conclusion that the grind is satisfactory? Either they didn't or they're just below the level of standards I've come to expect.

Not trying to flame ANet at all. Just being honest here. This is constructive criticism, not destructive. How many major updates get unveiled with Day 1 problems that better testers/beta feedback could've avoided?

Nukey · Jun 19, 2007, 01:14 AM // 01:14

Wow. Ele skills are useless. Why are these PvE only skills worse than Glyph of Elemental Power. That doesn't make sense.